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Post by Dulac on Dec 12, 2018 9:22:13 GMT
I spent a bit of time recently looking online to try to find definitive information concerning the benefits of using branded fuel (particularly Shell), rather than supermarket fuel. This was prompted by the significant price difference per litre and my concern that I am being ripped off. Some drivers are convinced that supermarket fuel is perfectly OK and they benefit from the cost savings by using it. Others say that they use Shell and when they try a supermarket brand the difference in performance and economy is noticeable. Honest John says that there is a difference in the sense that Shell (for example) adds certain substances to its diesel that improve lubricity, combustion and performance and the advantages are more noticeable when Shell V-Power is used - which is the most expensive of the lot. A friend of mine has been racing English sports cars for years and he and his colleagues only use Shell V-Power for racing.
For many years - since the old oily diesel fuel was unfortunately done away with and heavy engines became extraordinarily complex - I have gone out of my way to buy Shell diesel (only the Regular stuff) simply because I was told it was better for the engine and gave a better mpg figure, in the full knowledge that it has cost me more to do this. My conclusion is to keep running with Shell Regular (or whatever they call it now) in the belief that the EGR valve, injectors, DPF, fuel tank, etc. will be kept in better condition than if supermarket fuel was used. No doubt it makes a difference if you plan to keep a car for a couple of years then get rid of it and its potential problems to someone else, but I always hang on to mine for longer and have no wish to pay the big maintenance bills. The significant price difference still makes me feel uneasy though and the big oil companies aren't famous for making modest profits. Interestingly, it is a struggle now to find any blurb about 'regular' fuels on Shell's website - the emphasis is very much on V-Power. Perhaps the executives want even bigger bonuses. Oh, and round here the queues are always private cars at the supermarket filling stations, whereas the Shell stations seem to attract commercial drivers, PSVs and limousines.
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Diesel
Dec 14, 2018 9:49:09 GMT
Post by victor on Dec 14, 2018 9:49:09 GMT
Complicated business fuel these days, just the same as engine oil the answer always seem to be "It depends". I can only go by what the manufacturer recommends and for the Antara (and most diesels) they say use diesel that conforms to EN 590 which virtually every filling station supplies. I don't doubt that premium fuels eg Shell V-Power have the benefit of their research chemists and there will always be people who swear by it and would use nothing else. I use supermarket fuel because it's fresher and cheaper. I use my own additive which costs about 2p a litre against Shell 10p a litre. I've used it since new @10 miles on the clock so can't compare with before and after figures but, apart from the occasional DPF hitch it seems to work OK in mine. Could browse all day on this subject, final decision is yours ie where the rubber hits the road.
No 2 diesel cetane value is 46 to 48. (American) The heat value of Number 2 diesel fuel is 139,500 BTUs per gallon.
No 1 diesel cetane value is 51 to 53. (American) The heat value of Number 1 diesel fuel is 125,500 BTUs per gallon, which is approximately 10% lower than that of Number 2.
For comparison, the heat value of gasoline is 124,500 BTUs per gallon. The higher the heat value of the fuel, the more power the engine can generate, therefore consuming less fuel to do the same amount of work.
European EN 590:1993 The first EU diesel fuel specification. It established a sulphur limit of 0.2% and a cetane number of 49 in on-road and non-road diesel fuels (sometimes referred to as Euro 1 diesel fuel).
EN 590:1996 This standard reflected a new sulphur limit of 500 ppm.
Euro 1 1. January 1993 max. 0,200% min. Cetane number 49 Euro 2 1. January 1996 max. 0,050% min. Cetane number 49 Euro 3 1. January 2001 max. 0,035% min. Cetane number 51 Euro 4 1. January 2006 max. 0,005% min. Cetane number 51 Euro 5 1. January 2009 max. 0,001% min. Cetane number 51 Euro 6 1. January 2014
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Diesel
Dec 14, 2018 15:54:35 GMT
Post by Dulac on Dec 14, 2018 15:54:35 GMT
It is indeed. What additive do you use Victor, as a matter of interest? On the basis that diesel from the refinery is the same no matter where you buy it from and it is 'only' an additive that makes the difference I might look into this a bit further, mainly because a tankful of Shell costs me about £3 more than if I'd bought it at a typical supermarket (and Shell's Drivers Club points have lost their charm somewhat). Years ago it was good practice to buy branded diesel in the winter because it had anti-waxing properties compared to the more obscure and cheaper brands, but I'm not sure if that applies nowadays. My main concern is on the hidden components and the long-term effect of a more basic fuel upon them. The answer to that will probably never be revealed. My neighbour has a Kia Sorrento 2.5 diesel - about 10 years old - and he only uses supermarket fuel. Last year he was told the lining in the fuel tank had disintegrated and blocked the fuel supply system. Whether that is connected to the use of basic fuel I do not know.
Incidentally, a pal of mine has just had the EGR valve replaced on his BMW X3 under a recall. It is reported that 1.6 million vehicles are affected worldwide as a result of soot particles contributing to the risk of fire in the intake manifold. I wonder who pays for that lot?
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Post by victor on Dec 14, 2018 21:26:42 GMT
I use Archoil AR 6850 which has 2-EHN cetane Number improver and lubricant. The 2-EHN burns dry and tends to reduce lubricity in the cylinders so they've added lubricants to overcome this. I buy mines from Power Enhancer web site, costs a shade under £24 for two 500 ml bottles including delivery. If you're a new customer and sign up for their newsletter you get 10% off your first order and they sell all kinds of additives etc. What I liked about the AR 6850 was the company gives you a minimum dosage and a recommended dosage but they also encourage you to experiment by increasing the dosage until you no longer see any benefit in mpg then start reducing the dosage but who has time for all that. I just use the recommended dosage and leave it at that.
On the question of using excessive amounts of additives as a shortcut to better results, they warn you against it. They say if they recommend one can of their DPF or EGR cleaner etc to a full tank of fuel then don't add it to a quarter tank and expect it to work even better. Doing that just runs the risk of leaving deposits in the hot end of the fuel system components and if spots are deposited on the catalytic converter then this can ultimately destroy the cat. VERY EXPENSIVE. Look at it this way, if you were going to do the washing up - sorry, if your wife goes to do the washing up - would she empty half the bottle of Fairy Liquid into the basin and expect the dishes to be super duper clean? Of course not, it would leave streaky deposits all over them so best to use the recommended amount.
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Diesel
Dec 15, 2018 10:08:05 GMT
Post by victor on Dec 15, 2018 10:08:05 GMT
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Diesel
Dec 18, 2018 9:48:52 GMT
Post by Dulac on Dec 18, 2018 9:48:52 GMT
Thanks for that, I'll forward the link to him.
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Diesel
Dec 18, 2018 10:17:50 GMT
Post by Dulac on Dec 18, 2018 10:17:50 GMT
I use Archoil AR 6850 which has 2-EHN cetane Number improver and lubricant. The 2-EHN burns dry and tends to reduce lubricity in the cylinders so they've added lubricants to overcome this. I buy mines from Power Enhancer web site, costs a shade under £24 for two 500 ml bottles including delivery. If you're a new customer and sign up for their newsletter you get 10% off your first order and they sell all kinds of additives etc. What I liked about the AR 6850 was the company gives you a minimum dosage and a recommended dosage but they also encourage you to experiment by increasing the dosage until you no longer see any benefit in mpg then start reducing the dosage but who has time for all that. I just use the recommended dosage and leave it at that.
On the question of using excessive amounts of additives as a shortcut to better results, they warn you against it. They say if they recommend one can of their DPF or EGR cleaner etc to a full tank of fuel then don't add it to a quarter tank and expect it to work even better. Doing that just runs the risk of leaving deposits in the hot end of the fuel system components and if spots are deposited on the catalytic converter then this can ultimately destroy the cat. VERY EXPENSIVE. Look at it this way, if you were going to do the washing up - sorry, if your wife goes to do the washing up - would she empty half the bottle of Fairy Liquid into the basin and expect the dishes to be super duper clean? Of course not, it would leave streaky deposits all over them so best to use the recommended amount. Thank you Victor. Looking at their website the product reads well and your point about excessive use is certainly important. However, I asked this question of Honest John a couple of days ago because I respect his knowledge, forthright manner and trade connections: "HJ, Given the price difference between (say) Shell Regular and a typical supermarket might I expect similar performance and engine cleanliness if I used supermarket fuel from now on, plus a fuel additive? I drive an Antara 2015 2.2 cdti and only use Shell Regular at the moment. A typical fill up costs me about £3 or £4 more when using Shell and their Drivers Club points aren't worth much. " This is HJ's reply: "Well I wouldn't and I don't. I use only branded Super petrol or diesel in everything, get good mpg and never have any fuel system problems, nor have I had in more than 20 years of using only Super. " Weighing it up, for the time being I'll carry on with Shell, having done so for 25 years without any fuel related or cleanliness problems and - more particularly - because I plan to keep the Antara for another four years and anything that might contribute to a prolonged use over this period is worthwhile (statins anyone?). I don't suppose there ever will be a definitive answer to the question because of the variables involved.
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