Starter Motor Replacement

[Richy]

Hi All 
Over the last 2-3 weeks my car has been jacked up on axle stands while I replaced the starter motor.  It has been a bit of a drawn out process and I thought my experiences might be useful to the other keen forum mechanic DIYers out there as I found it really difficult to find any information on this topic.    

To start with a bit of history, my car a 2012 2.2cdti 4x4 manual exclusive with stop start, engine code LNQ, always started but the starter always seemed lathargic and slow, a bit like the battery was down on charge and as a result I was always very conscious when starting of the starter appearing to struggle and wondered what this would be like in the winter, indeed wondered if the car will let me down at some point.  The car has already had a new battery and the alternator output is high at up to 15v.  Previous examinations under the car showed that the insulation on the positive power cables connected to the started had melted leading me to think that I had a bad cable but it was only where connected to the starter.  Later I came to the conclusion that the melted insulation was due to the starter motor overheating.  The starter is positioned at the rear of the engine above the transfer box,  I did try to remove the starter without removing the transfer box but in the end came to the conclusion that the Transfer box needed to come out.

My process to remove the starter is listed below with some additional comments.

• Removed the battery, fuse box, battery tray and unbolted the rear coolant bottle to improve access to the cable passing around the gearbox.  These items are not essential to access the starter but I recommend the battery is disconnected, also you need to remove the battery tray to refill the gearbox oil on the 4x4 derivative.  4 bolts secure the battery tray,  I understand on 2wd the tray is welded in situ (edited)
• Jack up the whole vehicle and place on axle stands, I used 4 stands to lift the whole car.  You need to ensure the car is safely supported as you will be working underneath.  
• Remove the engine under shield.
• Drain the gearbox and transfer box oils,  as the car was on my drive I didn't want any major oil spills,  this proved essential in my case.  I did this later in my process and wished I had done earlier. 
• Remove the 4 bolts securing the underside chassis brace.  needed to remove the exhaust.
• Remove the exhaust, 3 bolts at the engine.  I removed the whole exhaust as the centre bolts were badly corroded, just pop off the rubber mountings.
• Remove the prop shaft, don't hang the prop shaft on the front universal joint as it can be damaged. 
• Under the bonnet loosen the 3 nuts to the RHS front suspension strut approx 5mm, no not remove them, ensure they are still wound onto the threads.
• Remove the front RHS wheel, remove the strut cable bracket, remove the two nuts at the bottom of the strut and knock them out whilst supporting the hub,  under the car knock the drive shaft off the RHS transfer box splines.  I left one bolt in the bottom strut hole to the top hub hole to support the hub.
• Remove the transfer box support bracket by the RHS front wheel where the drive shaft is located.  5 bolts.
• Remove the rear engine mounting bolt above and behind the transfer box.  I found I didn't need to re-support the engine but check before you remove this bolt, good idea to support the engine whilst this bolt is removed then gradually remove the support checking the engine is supported by the front and rear engine mountings.
• Remove the two bottom transfer box bolts to the gearbox.
• Remove the rear mounting bracket bolts 3 are M12, 2 are M10.  One is bolted into the engine, the others are either through or into the transfer box.  I found it easier to access 4 of the bolts from the RHS removed front wheel and the engine bolt underneath.   Mark where the bolts came from as they are all different,  The engine bolt is inside the bracket and difficult to access. Bolts are either 15mm or 18mm heads. 
  
• With the mounting bracket loose to need to lift the mounting bracket clear of the top of the transfer box, this is awkward, you need to flex the harness cable above slightly to create clearance.
• With the bracket clear you can slide the transfer box towards the RHS front wheel to clear the gear box then lower out of the car.  Beware you get oil spillage and at this point you realise what a good idea it was to drain the transfer and gear box oils.
• The starter motor bolts and power connectors can now be accessed. 
• Reassembly is the reverse taking the following into account.  
• The manual recommends replacing the O Ring on the transfer box to gearbox shaft,  this was available from Vauxhall approx £7.
• The manual recommends the mounting bracket bolts are torqued to 90NM, I did this and stripped the M10 thread into the top gearbox mounting, requiring a helicoil repair, so be careful the manual can be misleading.  This did my bolts to the following torques, guided by the manual.  At your own risk, please consider this is my opinion only.
  • M12 Main rear rubber mounting bolt 90nm
  • M12 lower 2 bolts to mounting bracket 90nm
  • M12 upper single bolt to mounting bracket 75nm
  • Two M12 lower transfer box bolts 75NM (underside of transfer box)
  • M10 Bracket Engine bolt and top transfer box to bracket bolt 60nm
  • M10 5 bolts to transfer box support bracket by the RHS front wheel 60nm
  • Rear prop shaft bolts 50nm, centre and front prop shaft bolts 25nm
• When rebuilding I did all the main transfer box and mounting bracket bolts up lightly before finally torquing up.
• Its a good idea to grease the engine undershield bolts before you put them back in, it stops them corroding.
• I used EP75-90 gearbox oil for both gearbox and transfer box.  I put 2.4 litres of oil in the gearbox and fill the transfer box to the fill plug (approx 0.8 litres).
• I needed to replace the gasket on the exhaust flexible connection.

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I couldn't find any thing wrong with the old starter, the brushes were little worn.  I took it to a garage that specialises in starter motors and alternators and they tested it saying it was ok.  I lightly reflatted the armature and then fully cleaned and rebuilt the starter before bottling it and buying a new one which cost me £200, it seemed sensible with the amount of effort required to strip and rebuild the car.  After stripping down and removing the melted insulation on the cable I could find nothing wrong with the cable itself and after re insulating it returned it to the car.  The new starter seemed the right decision, the car starts fine now
I think that is everything, if I remember anything else i will edit the text.  Reply with any questions

[victor]

Well done Richy, quite a job to tackle yourself and thanks for the write up, that's a great guide for anyone who's going to do it. I've been under mine (FWD only) taking a look at the starter and even without a transfer box it looked like a pain in the arse to get into, certainly I saw I'd need to remove the undertray and the rear engine mount. Same would apply for the alternator change I believe.

You nention a couple of things though, first of all the battery tray; I've had my battery out and there's no removable tray on mines, it's welded to the inner wing / chassis structure.

You say you've had melted insulation and there's been a couple of recalls on that, including the thermal sleeving over the feed cable. I never held much truck with that theory although I did put mines in and they said it was OK. Later on, however, they came up with a software update to address starter motor burnout and maybe that was the issue all along. Has yours been recalled for the siftware update?

[Richy]

Hi Victor Thank you for your response.

I don't know if it has had a software update, according to government web site it isn't due any updates. Next time I'm in Vauxhall i'll ask. I guess the software just limits the number of starts when in traffic to prevent the starter overheating, if I'm in that position I just turn the stop start off. Good point about the battery tray I have edit the text text to reflect this.

[Dulac]

I believe they were manufacturer's recalls, rather than DVLA sponsored ones. There might have been three for the starter motor: 1. concerning the terminal nut and washer; 2. concerning the insulated sheath to the cable and 3. for the software update. I found the best way to check was to email VX customer services in UK headquarters with the VIN number. They were very good then but this was pre-Peugeot ownership days so the case might now be altered.

[victor]

The Vauxhall recall for software update was 19-R-004 and I had mines done earlier this year. I asked them what it was all about and they couldn’t (or wouldn’t) tell me. Maybe it’s to do with the way the ECU controls the start system.

When you turn the key to the Start position, the starter relay is activated, sending current to the solenoid and energising the pull-in and hold-in windings. The solenoid plunger engages, pulling the starter pinion into mesh and also completing the circuit between the two main 12V terminals so that current flows from the battery through the starter. Once it’s engaged, the current through the pull-in windings is switched off but current continues to flow through the hold-in windings until the key is released from the Start position.

The start sequence is controlled through the ECU so it’s possible there was an error in programming which did not allow the normal process to take place. I’ve read of cases where owners were experiencing starter burnout and I wonder if this has been a problem all along.

[Richy]

Hi Guys

As a consequence of the above work my stop start has stopped working, will be going on a caravan haul shortly so that will definately eliminate the need for a regen but the car hasnt been far since the last haul so I am wondering why the this is happening. The car doesn't appear to be trying to regen and the stop start worked fine before. One theory is the battery was disconnected for approx 3 weeks, does the battery need to be programmed into the ECU ?

I did check my diagnostic trouble codes and had quite a few, to numerous to mention, so I cleared those down and now no faults are being displayed but still the stop start is not working, any ideas ?

One point to add previously I have disconnected the battery numerous times with no impact, also everything else works fine.  Strange ! 

[Dulac]

If you look in the OM (if you didn't get one then it can be downloaded online) there are several pages on the stop/start and the conditions which might prevent it from working. Others have reported the same issue previously and sometimes it is just a matter of the battery not being up to scratch.

[Richy]

One theory which I would like to offer to the forum for discussion is that the new starter motor is a different number. The old starter motor number 25186039 is no longer stocked and has been replaced by a new number 25192220. The motors look absolutely identical and are from the same supplier but presumably their must be some difference. Presumably the new starter now has a different resistance to the old unit and consequently different cranking amps. I wondering if the ECU is seeing this difference and has disabled the stop start. Will the ECU need to be re-programmed by a main dealer or will it self learn ?
I did fully charge the battery before it was replaced on the car.

[Dulac]

An interesting point. If it was a genuine GM component purchased through an 'official' source perhaps ask the supplier or, better still, contact the manufacturer for advice before running up further expense. On these and other pages there is a wide belief that the GM dealer network is unfamiliar with the Antara and is ignorant of programming and other issues. A few dealers are conscientious and see a problem through to the end (seeking the support of Vauxhall Motors when in doubt) whilst others just hang the customer out to dry.

[victor]

I wasn’t aware there were two starter motors for the Series 2 Antara with the 2.2 litre engine. I know the starter for the Series 1 with the 2 litre engine is 1.8kW while the starter for the 2.2 engine is 2.2kW rating. I looked up both part numbers, they're both 2.2kW with 9 tooth pinions and I don’t know what the difference is so it might just be consolidation of the Opel and Vauxhall/Euro Chevrolet stock numbers. The ones that are made by Mitsubishi have different Mfg numbers but who knows what their numbers mean.

The Stop/Start system is a bit like the DPF - subject to a number of poorly written and randomly enforced rules through sketchy ECU programming. It’s not made any easier by the Smart charge system which, again, is a bit selfish and likes to think it’s the boss and control everything. Thankfully it doesn’t bring on the engine warning light when it’s not working like the Peugeot does but since PSA bought over Vauxhall that’s probably something we can look forward to.

[Richy]

The old and new units I have are both Mitsubishi, Certainly the new unit works better than the old one, the 7zap system said that the old number was no longer stocked and gave a replacement number which matched the spec of my car on the description of the new part. After 150 miles of caravan towing the stop start fired into life a couple of times and has done a 2-3 times whilst driving solo today. Does seem intermittent though and can't seem to be relied upon. Anyway I'm just glad it has started working if only intermittently at this stage. As you say the ECU operation does seem sketchy, perhaps it will improve as time progresses and the ECU settles down, after all it was powered down and disconnected for almost 3 weeks. Frankly I'm happy if it doesn't kick in but I like to know its working. Thanks for all your help guys.